Cast of Characters, In Order of Appearance
Laura, AKA raginghostility
Angel, AKA angelcerv25
Julie, AKA keygrace
Mikaela, AKA embryogirl
me, AKA glowing_dragon
Rose, AKA moonbathe (MadRayKin11)
Laura A., AKA kitkatkrisp
Steve, AKA nyquilsteve317
Flagrant3D3lict0, AKA Chandi (amigone)
[19:24:05] grritsRawRa: yeah
[19:24:20] grritsRawRa: i did, anyway.
[19:24:29] *** guaaaache has joined the conversation.
[19:24:54] angelcerv21: ah, there we go
[19:24:57] julieiskeygrace: there we are
[19:25:18] grritsRawRa: wait, what just happened?
[19:25:28] guaaaache: finally got in
[19:25:36] angelcerv21: I think Dshout will be too scared
[19:25:42] grritsRawRa: haha. probably.
[19:25:58] guaaaache: is that the person who posted last week after the chat?
[19:26:01] julieiskeygrace: someone else got in too, alena, who's that on bp again?
[19:26:02] angelcerv21: yes
[19:26:10] Flami: glowing_dragon
[19:26:10] angelcerv21: glowing dragon, our fave!!!
[19:26:11] julieiskeygrace: i've seen that name before on here
[19:26:14] Flami: yes, that is the person
[19:26:17] angelcerv21: hahahaha
[19:26:29] Flami: guess what, guys! my journal BROKE DreamWidth! I am so happy :D
[19:26:40] grritsRawRa: (im stupid.)
[19:26:39] guaaaache: what?
[19:26:37] julieiskeygrace: ahhh, i was gettin super mixed up here... i was thinkin glowing_dragon was guaaache
[19:26:43] angelcerv21: i'm drinking wine which sprayed me after I pushed the cork inside the bottle because i had to attack it with my knife after it destroyed my corkscrew
[19:26:47] grritsRawRa: whats that mean?
[19:27:00] angelcerv21: I saw that post, what's dreamwidth?
[19:27:09] Flami: LJ News link
[19:27:09] guaaaache: gross, I refuse to buy wine with cork anymore
[19:27:13] angelcerv21: does that mean it's too big for livejournal, basically?
[19:27:58] angelcerv21: you do have thousands of posts
[19:28:16] guaaaache: it's true, you post a lot. you are very dedicated to the internet
[19:28:25] angelcerv21: haha
[19:28:41] Flami: I think it's because of the sheer size of the journal, number of comments, and number of tags
[19:29:01] angelcerv21: i have almost 200 posts to my LJ and that's not bad for three years, since one of those years i was gone from lj
[19:29:13] *** julieiskeygrace has left the conversation.
[19:29:20] angelcerv21: so that means too big for LJ, right?
[19:29:23] grritsRawRa: i dont really use my actual page. which is sad.
[19:29:31] angelcerv21: i do
[19:29:33] guaaaache: I didn't post hardly anything on my lj for like a year until recently
[19:29:39] angelcerv21: but i have a handwritten journal, too
[19:29:59] guaaaache: i can't even keep that up anymore, either
[19:30:24] Flami: it's too big for that site, yes
[19:30:29] grritsRawRa: i just like to talk to random people.
[19:30:35] grritsRawRa: so bp is perfect.
[19:31:11] guaaaache: I like to talk to random people... online. in real life it's quite a different story
[19:31:16] angelcerv21: so what are you going to do? start a new journal? you literally can't post anymore on your journal?
[19:31:28] *** julieiskeygrace has joined the conversation.
[19:31:34] grritsRawRa: oh, in real life, im quite anti-social.
[19:31:41] julieiskeygrace: i think i'm going to have to give up on chat, you guys
[19:31:42] julieiskeygrace: :-(
[19:31:44] julieiskeygrace: its being shit
[19:31:48] angelcerv21: aw!!
[19:31:55] angelcerv21: lame
[19:31:57] grritsRawRa: aww :-(
[19:32:06] guaaaache: has anyone seen that movie Ghostworld
(or something similar) where the main character is Ricky Gervais?
[19:32:17] julieiskeygrace: every so often, i'll just stop getting messages... it's bawz
[19:32:19] angelcerv21: never heard of it
[19:32:24] julieiskeygrace: never heard of it, either
[19:32:27] angelcerv21: try a restart
[19:32:34] guaaaache: it's quite new, I guess
[19:32:36] angelcerv21: then clear your cache
[19:32:41] julieiskeygrace: tried one already, and it's still buggered
[19:32:43] guaaaache: I mean, a few years old
[19:32:46] angelcerv21: awwww
[19:33:03] guaaaache: anyway, if you ever watch it, I am totally like his character
[19:33:04] angelcerv21: this is usual, though.... always someone who is having connection problems
[19:33:27] angelcerv21: i need a movie
[19:33:32] angelcerv21: i haven't watched one in ages
[19:33:36] *** julieiskeygrace has left the conversation.
[19:33:37] grritsRawRa: Labyrinth
[19:33:45] angelcerv21: I WANT TO SEE THAT
[19:33:58] angelcerv21: people are like, "you haven't seen that????"
[19:34:01] angelcerv21: no, i haven't
[19:34:04] angelcerv21: nor Beauty and the Beast
[19:34:09] grritsRawRa: then watch it, d00d!
[19:34:38] angelcerv21: i can't spend frivolously AT ALL
[19:34:40] Flami: haven't seen either
[19:34:41] angelcerv21: i need a job
[19:34:44] *** julieiskeygrace has joined the conversation.
[19:34:49] julieiskeygrace: back
[19:34:54] angelcerv21: yay!
[19:34:55] grritsRawRa: download it. it's worth it.
[19:35:03] Flami: I have lots of Chinese food and instant noodles. :D
[19:35:04] grritsRawRa: ive got David Bowie in my head right now.
[19:35:21] grritsRawRa: is this
the movie you're talking about?
[19:35:21] julieiskeygrace: or i've seen him mentioned a fair bit
[19:35:23] angelcerv21: i had to buy some real food today
[19:35:26] angelcerv21: i mean, I'm starving
[19:35:33] grritsRawRa: oh, i only have him in my head because of the movie.
[19:35:35] angelcerv21: i can't lose any more weight!!!!
[19:35:52] julieiskeygrace: oh i've heard of that movie
[19:35:54] angelcerv21: i bought milk and cheese and eggs (ew, but i can hardboil them and make a cake with them)
[19:36:01] angelcerv21: and bread and English muffins
[19:36:08] julieiskeygrace: make scrambled eggs
[19:36:10] julieiskeygrace: :-)
[19:36:11] angelcerv21: and vegetables
[19:36:14] angelcerv21: ew ew ew
[19:36:16] julieiskeygrace: or a big-ass omelette
[19:36:16] angelcerv21: i hate eggs
[19:36:19] grritsRawRa: egg salad.
[19:36:20] angelcerv21: I hate those too
[19:36:22] grritsRawRa: nom nom
[19:36:24] angelcerv21: oh, I like that
[19:36:25] julieiskeygrace: really? aww i looove eggs
[19:36:33] guaaaache: yum, I have pesto pasta salad in front of me
[19:36:36] angelcerv21: egg salad is good... how do you make it again?
[19:36:43] julieiskeygrace: piece and egg, nomnomnom
[19:36:42] guaaaache: just thought I'd join in on the food discussion
[19:36:56] julieiskeygrace: mmm pesto salad, also good :-)
[19:36:56] guaaaache: I think it's just any salad that features eggs?
[19:36:57] angelcerv21: i just ate a heaping sandwich I made
[19:37:08] grritsRawRa: egg salad - mayo and mustard
[19:37:10] angelcerv21: egg salad, it's a yellowish mixture
[19:37:12] julieiskeygrace: ah yeah, i wanted to hear about this sandwich!
[19:37:16] julieiskeygrace: :-D
[19:37:15] angelcerv21: it
[19:37:14] angelcerv21: oh that
[19:37:21] grritsRawRa: with diced hard boiled eggs
[19:37:29] angelcerv21: i don't have any mustard dammity
[19:37:32] grritsRawRa: maybe a little olive if you like it.
[19:37:36] grritsRawRa: aww
[19:37:37] angelcerv21: or pickles
[19:37:40] angelcerv21: oh wait, that's tuna
[19:37:47] grritsRawRa: in tuna, i put celery
[19:37:58] angelcerv21: i forgot cake mixes, too
[19:38:03] *** julieiskeygrace has left the conversation.
[19:38:03] angelcerv21: that's why i bought the eggs
[19:38:08] grritsRawRa: make a mayonnaise cake
[19:38:06] angelcerv21: for cooking
[19:38:19] grritsRawRa: sounds disgusting, but tastes fantastic.
[19:38:20] angelcerv21: cake mixes can be real cheap
[19:38:24] angelcerv21: mayo cake?
[19:38:28] grritsRawRa: yeah!
[19:38:30] grritsRawRa: its the shit.
[19:38:38] angelcerv21: how do you make it?
[19:38:40] guaaaache: that was the movie i was talking about... it's Ghost Town, not Ghost World
[19:38:42] grritsRawRa: uhh
[19:38:43] grritsRawRa: hold on
[19:38:56] angelcerv21: Ghost Town
, is that american?
[19:39:00] angelcerv21: i've not heard of it
[19:39:03] *** julieiskeygrace has joined the conversation.
[19:39:10] julieiskeygrace: died again guys
[19:39:12] angelcerv21: there's Ghost Rider
.... never saw that, but wanted to
[19:39:13] grritsRawRa: Mayo Cake Recipe
[19:39:19] grritsRawRa: you dont actually need eggs
[19:39:52] grritsRawRa: oh hey, ive heard of it.
[19:40:00] guaaaache: it is american, but the main actor is english
[19:40:05] julieiskeygrace: isn't Ghost Rider
the nicholas cage one?
[19:40:13] guaaaache: he's a stand-up comedian mostly
[19:40:18] guaaaache: this is Ghost Town
, not Ghost Rider
[19:40:19] angelcerv21: i have everything but the baking soda
[19:40:24] grritsRawRa: yeah, nick cage is Ghost Rider
[19:40:35] julieiskeygrace: ahhh, i only got back in at the Ghost Rider
[19:40:37] grritsRawRa: Ghost Town
- i wanted to see that too
[19:40:42] angelcerv21: Ghost Rider
looked good but never saw it
[19:40:48] angelcerv21: i have been so lame... not doing shit
[19:40:57] angelcerv21: except job hunting
[19:41:01] grritsRawRa: i wasnt too impressed with Ghost Rider
[19:41:07] guaaaache: fuck, this chat is so hard to keep up with
[19:41:09] angelcerv21: seen 13 Ghosts
[19:41:13] angelcerv21: that was good
[19:41:14] julieiskeygrace: i just can't take Nic Cage seriously
[19:41:19] angelcerv21: really?
[19:41:32] julieiskeygrace: after Con Air
[19:41:37] julieiskeygrace: he was just too funny in those
[19:41:40] grritsRawRa: 13 Ghosts
was good. from what i remember.
[19:41:42] angelcerv21: Face/Off
was good! i loved it at least
[19:41:50] julieiskeygrace: i loved it, too! just cause the whole idea was hilarious!
[19:41:58] grritsRawRa: never saw it
[19:41:59] angelcerv21: yes!!!
[19:42:00] guaaaache: the acting was pretty bad, though
[19:42:08] julieiskeygrace: and his whole "i wanna take his face... off!" bit,
[19:42:08] angelcerv21: well, look who was in it
[19:42:25] angelcerv21: john travolta was wrong for the role
[19:42:27] *** julieiskeygrace has left the conversation.
[19:42:30] grritsRawRa: Ghost Town
is the movie version of Ghost Whisperer
, isnt it?
[19:42:35] guaaaache: he is wrong in general
[19:42:42] angelcerv21: hahahahahha
[19:42:42] guaaaache: no
[19:42:50] grritsRawRa: looks like it lol
[19:42:57] guaaaache: well i guess it's a similar concept
[19:43:05] angelcerv21: i have a hard time with ghost stuff
[19:43:06] guaaaache: except he really doesn't want to help the ghosts, and keeps telling them to fuck off
[19:43:10] angelcerv21: i don't believe in them
[19:43:16] grritsRawRa: haa
[19:43:20] *** julieiskeygrace has joined the conversation.
[19:43:30] grritsRawRa: i wanna see it. maybe ill download it.
[19:43:40] julieiskeygrace: back
[19:43:41] angelcerv21: seen that South Park
that makes fun of Ghost Hunters
[19:43:45] guaaaache: I like how they all sneak into his room in the middle of the night, and wake him up... and then one says "is this a bad time?"
[19:43:48] angelcerv21: "what was that? what was that??"
[19:43:58] angelcerv21: "Oh my god! I'm so scared, I'm so scared!"
[19:44:06] grritsRawRa: i HATE Ghost Hunters
[19:44:09] grritsRawRa: load of shit.
[19:44:17] julieiskeygrace: what is this Ghost Hunters
[19:44:20] guaaaache: I don't know how anyone could believe them
[19:44:20] grritsRawRa: .. imo, of course.
[19:44:25] angelcerv21: a really dumb american tv show
[19:44:30] julieiskeygrace: literally just folk looking for ghosts?
[19:44:32] guaaaache: they're people who claim to get rid of ghosts for you
[19:44:33] grritsRawRa: yep
[19:44:36] julieiskeygrace: hahahaha, assholes :-D
[19:44:46] angelcerv21: ghosts are merely inventions of the human mind
[19:44:51] grritsRawRa: they record so-called "evidence" of ghosts.
[19:44:54] julieiskeygrace: yeah, my pal totally believes in ghosts
[19:44:54] guaaaache: and they basically just go to peoples houses, and act like fear mongers
[19:44:58] angelcerv21: you believe them, they will be there. like magic, it only works with belief
[19:45:09] angelcerv21: humans, and the brain, are wonderful delusion generators
[19:45:09] julieiskeygrace: we watched Paranormal Activity
, and she was convinced that that was gonna start happenin to her
[19:45:19] julieiskeygrace: cause her grandad died in that flat, and it makes noises at night
[19:45:26] julieiskeygrace: ...like EVERY OTHER OLD HOUSE...
[19:45:30] guaaaache: HAHAH, I didn't mind that movie, but hated the last 3 seconds
[19:45:43] angelcerv21: that movie was pretty trippy, i must admit
[19:45:44] julieiskeygrace: i didn't see the normal version
[19:45:46] guaaaache: it would have been so much better if they cut the last 3 seconds off
[19:45:47] julieiskeygrace: i saw a different one
[19:45:53] angelcerv21: but i thought it was about aliens
[19:45:57] julieiskeygrace: it was a LOT better than what i'm told the regular one is
[19:46:04] grritsRawRa: what part was the last three seconds? i dont remember.
[19:46:08] guaaaache: i have no idea which version i saw
[19:46:10] julieiskeygrace: doesn't she slit her throat?
[19:46:14] julieiskeygrace: in the normal one?
[19:46:15] angelcerv21: cool!
[19:46:19] guaaaache: oh that's not the one I saw
[19:46:21] julieiskeygrace: the one i saw, she gets shot
[19:46:28] angelcerv21: wait, i don't know this movie
[19:46:29] grritsRawRa: i dont know which one i saw
[19:46:32] guaaaache: in the version i saw, she lunges at the camera
[19:46:37] julieiskeygrace: and there's another one
[19:46:42] julieiskeygrace: yeah, she lunges at the camera
[19:46:44] grritsRawRa: yeah, i saw that one.
[19:46:49] guaaaache: it was stupid
[19:46:53] grritsRawRa: yes, it was
[19:47:01] grritsRawRa: and theres a second one coming out.
[19:47:14] guaaaache: would have been better if they just left it at her throwing him across the room
[19:47:19] *** julieiskeygrace has left the conversation.
[19:47:21] grritsRawRa: i was laughing during most of the first one lol
[19:47:38] *** julieiskeygrace has joined the conversation.
[19:47:39] angelcerv21: aliens, man
[19:47:42] angelcerv21: now those are real
[19:47:46] julieiskeygrace: getting good at this going in and out now
[19:47:50] angelcerv21: i wish I could be abducted by some aliens
[19:47:57] grritsRawRa: The Fourth Kind
[19:48:05] angelcerv21: "you want to check out my butthole? Sure! I want to check out yours, too"
[19:48:11] julieiskeygrace: ahahahahahahha!! :-D
[19:48:18] angelcerv21: yeah, The Fourth Kind
, that's what i was thinking of
[19:48:19] guaaaache: I recently watched something on aliens that suggests that aliens are just as much imagination as ghosts
[19:48:24] grritsRawRa: i didn't like that one.
[19:48:30] julieiskeygrace: that movie The Fourth Kind
was apparently bollocks
[19:48:31] grritsRawRa: i was bored.
[19:48:35] angelcerv21: they probably are just as much imagination
[19:48:36] angelcerv21: but
[19:48:40] angelcerv21: statistically speaking
[19:48:45] angelcerv21: they are out there
[19:48:51] angelcerv21: just as we are here
[19:48:54] angelcerv21: in all probability
[19:49:05] guaaaache: seems like too big of a conincidence that the amount of people claiming abductions gets larger each time a major alien film comes out
[19:49:08] julieiskeygrace: yeah, i think statistically they're there, but most of the time they've not come and landed and probed folk
[19:49:10] grritsRawRa: its quite selfish of humans to believe that we are the only people in the universe.
[19:49:37] angelcerv21: it's what the christians believe
[19:49:46] guaaaache: I don't not believe in them, but a lot of what people describe are straight out of movies... and it's usually after the movies have been out
[19:49:47] angelcerv21: but religion is dangerous all the way around
[19:49:51] julieiskeygrace: i don't!
[19:50:17] julieiskeygrace: i just think people's imaginations get way too wild
[19:50:19] grritsRawRa: i consider myself agnostic.
[19:50:19] angelcerv21: the universe is governed by probability, it seems
[19:50:26] angelcerv21: i'm a deist
[19:50:32] julieiskeygrace: i mean, there's some pretty awesome cloud formations that look like spaceships
[19:50:49] guaaaache: this reminds me of this ridiculous conversation I had with my sister
[19:50:54] angelcerv21: i've seen many UFOs, but I would think they are governments trying to hide something
[19:51:17] angelcerv21: she say she was abducted?
[19:51:33] angelcerv21: that's what would suck about being abducted, no one would believe you, hahahahaha
[19:51:45] guaaaache: no, i was referring to the religious stuff
[19:51:49] angelcerv21: i would beg the aliens to take me to their world
[19:51:51] guaaaache: she's a christian
[19:51:53] angelcerv21: oh ok
[19:51:56] angelcerv21: oh, that's right
[19:52:04] guaaaache: and until recently, she was under the impression that I hate all christians
[19:52:07] guaaaache: which is not true at all
[19:52:21] guaaaache: and she just randomly asked me one day, "why don't you believe in god"
[19:52:29] guaaaache: and I said "I don't know, I just don't."
[19:52:39] guaaaache: because I really didn't want to get into that kind of conversation with her
[19:52:43] guaaaache: but she kept baiting me
[19:52:49] guaaaache: so I took the time to explain
[19:52:49] angelcerv21: i do, but he / she / it doesn't give a fuck about anyone... that's deism
[19:53:11] guaaaache: that I only dislike it when things happen such as
[19:53:27] guaaaache: when a priest is found to have molested a lot of children or something, and the church protects them
[19:53:38] guaaaache: they should be prosecuted for that just like anyone else
[19:53:46] guaaaache: no special treatment just because of who they are
[19:54:04] angelcerv21: hahahaha
[19:54:05] *** julieiskeygrace has left the conversation.
[19:54:10] angelcerv21: i hate all religion
[19:54:15] angelcerv21: it's harmful
[19:54:15] guaaaache: but she always gets upset when I mention things like that
[19:54:18] angelcerv21: oppressive
[19:54:21] grritsRawRa: ahh! my parents are here
[19:54:24] *** julieiskeygrace has joined the conversation.
[19:54:26] guaaaache: and says things like "yeah well, not every christian is like that"
[19:54:28] angelcerv21: good or bad thing?
[19:54:31] guaaaache: dude, I fucking know that
[19:54:32] julieiskeygrace: baaaaaack
[19:54:55] julieiskeygrace: wow, we've gone from UFOs to religion in the space of three minutes
[19:54:59] angelcerv21: not every christian is like that.... what a terrible thing to say
[19:55:04] guaaaache: and she just keeps saying "things like this really upset me because people judge me, and think I'm like tha too"
[19:55:05] angelcerv21: hahaha
[19:55:13] grritsRawRa: good sorta. bad for the reason theyre down here.
[19:55:18] angelcerv21: well, look at the dogma she ascribes to
[19:55:35] grritsRawRa: brb guys. i gotta go do some stuff.
[19:55:56] guaaaache: and I said, well it SHOULD upset you, not because it makes you or your religion look bad, but because those are fucking terrible things to do to other people!
[19:56:24] angelcerv21: yeah
[19:56:36] angelcerv21: religion is truly dangerous
[19:56:51] angelcerv21: they were good people
[19:56:47] angelcerv21: i was raised in a convent
[19:56:41] angelcerv21: it took me a long time to realize this
[19:56:56] angelcerv21: but the religion thing... harmful
[19:57:06] guaaaache: she doesn't get it, though, the conversation ended because she kept saying "well, I hope you don't think I'm like that." uhh, why would I think that? that's just self-aborbed of her
[19:57:23] guaaaache: she can't hear about things like that without taking personal offense and getting upset because it might reflect her when it doesn't
[19:57:44] angelcerv21: well, christians ARE like that
[19:58:01] angelcerv21: all who follow some dogmatic religion ought to understand that faith's bloody history
[19:58:26] guaaaache: oh yeah... that was another thing, she kept saying 'people misrepresent the bible all the time'
[19:58:33] angelcerv21: islam, christian, judaism, all of them
[19:58:53] angelcerv21: uh no, it is the christians who have misenterpreted it
[19:58:56] angelcerv21: for evil ends
[19:59:07] guaaaache: I'm pretty sure the bible she reads is misrepresented in some way, since she isn't reading it in its original form
[19:59:14] angelcerv21: exactly
[19:59:22] guaaaache: I think the entire old testament is not even relevant to today's society anymroe
[19:59:29] angelcerv21: nor the new
[19:59:45] guaaaache: but the old testament much more so
[19:59:48] angelcerv21: it is a collection of writings written by mortal flawed men
[19:59:57] angelcerv21: from a time way out of touch with today's time
[20:00:06] angelcerv21: making the bible, in a way, useless
[20:00:08] *** julieiskeygrace has left the conversation.
[20:00:10] angelcerv21: or dangerous
[20:00:17] guaaaache: why would you follow a text that condones rape, incest, and muder
[20:00:21] Flami: NOBODY is reading the Bible in its original form these days - they're all translations
[20:00:23] angelcerv21: and slavery
[20:00:23] guaaaache: murder also
[20:00:41] angelcerv21: did you see nyquilsteve's video on "traditional marriage" ?
[20:00:45] angelcerv21: that was hilarious
[20:00:49] guaaaache: haha yes, it was hilarious
[20:01:03] guaaaache: Alena, that's my point. my sister thinks her interpretation of the bible is superior
[20:01:24] angelcerv21: the catholics think theirs is superior
[20:01:27] Flami: and just what is her interpretation?
[20:01:31] angelcerv21: the presybeterians, theirs
[20:01:41] angelcerv21: the lutherans, baptists
[20:01:58] guaaaache: I didn't ask for details. as far as I know, she goes to bible study classes to be told how to interpret it
[20:02:06] guaaaache: she doesn't do it on her own
[20:02:09] angelcerv21: all have some interpretation which still condones homophobia, "traditional values," or some dogma related to such
[20:02:29] Flami: well, yeah... that's how there got to be so many versions... I've seen a GREEN version which purports to interpret things from an environmental standpoint
[20:02:38] Flami: I see, Mikaela
[20:02:43] *** julieiskeygrace has joined the conversation.
[20:02:44] angelcerv21: now that sounds interesting
[20:02:50] julieiskeygrace: got shoved out again
[20:03:00] julieiskeygrace: what'd i miss?
[20:03:03] angelcerv21: the koran is a particularly hateful nasty book
[20:03:07] angelcerv21: bible talk
[20:03:11] guaaaache: I think the bible can be interpreted in any way you want
[20:03:24] angelcerv21: no, i don't think so
[20:03:31] angelcerv21: those men writing it had certain ends in mind
[20:03:33] angelcerv21: the problem is
[20:03:36] angelcerv21: that was then
[20:03:37] julieiskeygrace: ahh, cool
[20:03:37] angelcerv21: this is now
[20:03:45] guaaaache: that is true, but the language is pretty different now
[20:03:47] angelcerv21: it is not god's word
[20:03:49] angelcerv21: it is man's word
[20:03:54] *** grritsRawRa has left the conversation.
[20:03:57] guaaaache: you have to decide what you think it means to "lay" with a woman, etc.
[20:04:03] angelcerv21: when women tried to contribute, their voices were stamped out
[20:04:16] guaaaache: yeah, there were books written by women which have been left out
[20:04:25] angelcerv21: i have read the gospel of mary
[20:04:25] julieiskeygrace: i think people need to realise that in the catholic church anyway, the bible isn't the only writing that's followed
[20:04:30] guaaaache: I want to read that
[20:04:33] angelcerv21: it is the only one making any real sense
[20:04:45] angelcerv21: yes i know, julie
[20:04:53] Flami: I want to read the Apocrypha
[20:04:59] angelcerv21: i grew up in a church and read all kinds of things
[20:05:05] angelcerv21: catechism was something i had to do
[20:05:08] angelcerv21: being confirmed
[20:05:26] angelcerv21: what's the apocrypha?
[20:05:28] *** julieiskeygrace has left the conversation.
[20:05:45] guaaaache: I went to my friend's wedding a couple of years ago, and she is presbyterian. they actually read out a verse that basically said "the woman must submit to the man in marriage"
[20:05:57] Flami: all these books which aren't officially part of the Bible... like the Gospel of Thomas
[20:05:58] guaaaache: and then went on to say "now, that doesn't mean that the woman must submit to the man"
[20:06:00] angelcerv21: that was man's belief at the time
[20:06:03] guaaaache: um, why did you just say it, then?!
[20:06:26] guaaaache: you can see what you want to see
[20:06:40] angelcerv21: well, in today's world, they retain followers by trying to appease them and throw in new meanings
[20:06:43] angelcerv21: which is all pointless
[20:06:45] angelcerv21: the meanings are there
[20:06:52] angelcerv21: made by men thousands of years ago
[20:07:04] angelcerv21: from prevailing cultural beliefs
[20:07:11] angelcerv21: which makes the bible a sort of almanac
[20:07:19] angelcerv21: stuff that was going on at the time
[20:07:30] angelcerv21: it is more anthropological than anything
[20:07:37] angelcerv21: again, not god's word. Man's word
[20:07:49] angelcerv21: but the men of that time claimed it was god's will
[20:08:04] angelcerv21: when it is highly arrogant for any human to know anything about "god's will"
[20:08:44] guaaaache: agreed
[20:08:47] guaaaache: aww, everyone left
[20:08:49] guaaaache: well, almost
[20:08:58] angelcerv21: hahahaaha, religion talk makes people uncomfortable
[20:09:07] guaaaache: yeah, I noticed
[20:09:30] angelcerv21: I try to cut out the middle man myself (bible, man's word, so-called scriptures)
[20:09:48] angelcerv21: i know there is a god, i feel it quite certainly in the breathing of the earth
[20:10:10] Flami: haha... Angel, you're sounding like a pagan
[20:10:14] guaaaache: I tend to not even think about religion and god until someone else brings it up. it's just totally not a part of my life
[20:10:21] angelcerv21: how do I sound like a pagan?
[20:10:33] guaaaache: I think that's how they work?
[20:10:36] guaaaache: believe? something...
[20:10:37] Flami: "I feel it in the breathing of the earth"
[20:10:37] angelcerv21: hmm
[20:10:43] angelcerv21: i've always felt it
[20:10:45] angelcerv21: can't you?
[20:10:54] angelcerv21: i thought everyone did, especially when i was little
[20:10:58] angelcerv21: the earth is a living thing
[20:11:01] guaaaache: felt what?
[20:11:03] Flami: I don't know... maybe I'm not wired that way
[20:11:04] angelcerv21: with or without humans
[20:11:05] angelcerv21: it breathes
[20:11:07] guaaaache: oh, of course. that's quite obvious
[20:11:08] angelcerv21: i feel it
[20:11:15] angelcerv21: right now, it's a labored breath since we are killing it
[20:11:18] angelcerv21: but it's there
[20:11:43] guaaaache: Maybe not the earth itself, but certainly everything on it which it generates
[20:11:59] angelcerv21: the earth itself is just that
[20:12:02] angelcerv21: everything on it
[20:12:09] guaaaache: our self-awareness has kind of interrupted the balance of things
[20:12:12] angelcerv21: unfortunately, the humans have turned against it
[20:12:24] angelcerv21: she will fight back
[20:12:30] angelcerv21: we will pay for our crimes against the earth
[20:12:34] angelcerv21: literally
[20:12:38] guaaaache: if all insects on earth ceased to exist, there would be chaos
[20:12:45] angelcerv21: yes
[20:12:48] guaaaache: if all humans ceased to exist, things would start to restore themselves
[20:12:59] angelcerv21: scientists are already starting to see what i already knew - massive changes coming soon
[20:13:02] Flami: I believe that
[20:13:21] angelcerv21: no more breeding, that's a start in the right direction
[20:13:43] angelcerv21: if these religious right wing nutters would shut up, we could get some real reproductive changes happening for the better of the earth
[20:13:53] angelcerv21: proper education, abortion promotion, things like that
[20:14:08] Flami: word game break
[20:14:17] guaaaache: the opposition government wants to introduce something or other to encourage younger people to breed, because they worry that the older generations won't have anyone to look after them or something
[20:14:18] angelcerv21: what's a word game break?
[20:14:47] angelcerv21: what??? oh my god, this opposition gov't must be the conservative one
[20:14:55] guaaaache: it is
[20:14:58] guaaaache: Tony Abbott
[20:15:03] angelcerv21: yes, it seems they cause damage wherever they go
[20:15:16] angelcerv21: oh hey guaaaache, i should be in australia in the next 2 years
[20:15:20] guaaaache: he is very opposed to abortion, women's equality, homosexuals, helping the homeleess
[20:15:26] guaaaache: I dare say he's worse than Bush
[20:15:30] guaaaache: oooh.
[20:15:31] angelcerv21: sounds like it
[20:15:36] guaaaache: going to do your post grad?
[20:15:54] angelcerv21: yes, monash is a school i'm looking at
[20:15:55] guaaaache: he's worse than Bush because he's way more educated than Bush, but still has these ridiculous, ignorant views
[20:16:00] angelcerv21: scary
[20:16:02] guaaaache: ah that's in melbourne
[20:16:07] angelcerv21: bush tried to make abortion illegal
[20:16:17] angelcerv21: all these women rose up in fury
[20:16:25] guaaaache: understandably
[20:16:30] angelcerv21: how dare any man have any say on such a subject?
[20:16:43] angelcerv21: you're a man, sit down and shut up
[20:16:48] angelcerv21: i can't breed, period
[20:16:53] angelcerv21: but i'm not just pro-choice
[20:16:59] angelcerv21: i'm pro-ABORTION
[20:17:10] angelcerv21: they need to be promoted like condoms and safe sex and adoption
[20:17:11] guaaaache: I'm not pro-abortion
[20:17:38] angelcerv21: for the sake of the earth, the sake of the burgeoning population of humans already in existence
[20:17:42] angelcerv21: god, i hate religion
[20:17:46] guaaaache: I do think it should be promoted as an option
[20:17:58] angelcerv21: absolutely
[20:18:05] guaaaache: but in the end, I think pro-choice is the approach, because it's entirely up to the woman to decide even if I don't agree with it
[20:18:22] guaaaache: I still want people to have their freedom / rights
[20:18:34] angelcerv21: pro-choice isn't radical enough for me. Leaves that wiggle room to make a woman feel guilty for the choice that is hers and hers alone
[20:18:35] Flami: I like the word "burgeoning"... always heard it in context of a woman's burgeoning belly
[20:18:37] guaaaache: a lot of women have been pressured into getting abortions, too
[20:18:44] angelcerv21: hahahahaha, alena
[20:18:48] Flami: a word game break is what it sounds like... a break to play word games
[20:18:50] angelcerv21: really?
[20:18:52] Flami: no, I'm being serious!
[20:18:54] angelcerv21: that must be in australia
[20:19:11] guaaaache: it happens anywhere as far as I'm aware
[20:19:26] angelcerv21: here, they pressure you to have it, to feel guilty... they make you look at the baby through ultrasound before doing an abortion
[20:19:29] guaaaache: it's not necessarily direct pressure. it can be societal pressure also
[20:19:43] angelcerv21: I'm all about that
[20:19:50] angelcerv21: don't get me wrong... if she wants it, she wants it
[20:19:53] angelcerv21: but that does more harm
[20:20:06] angelcerv21: aborting it is being selfish for her own sake, nothing wrong with that
[20:20:18] angelcerv21: and for the sake of the earth
[20:20:42] guaaaache: I think it's best to sit down and talk with her in a completely unbiased way... discuss all the possibilities of any decision she'd make
[20:20:53] angelcerv21: professionally, yes
[20:21:07] angelcerv21: as the nurse or doctor who would perform such a procedure if she chooses it
[20:21:08] guaaaache: so what would life be like if she kept it? pros and cons. what would life be like if she aborted. pros and cons, etc
[20:21:22] angelcerv21: what worries me is the psycho-torture they put a woman through if she does choose an abortion
[20:21:46] angelcerv21: i guess i see nothing but cons when it comes to breeding, hahahaha
[20:21:47] guaaaache: they found that some counsellors weren't doing that, though... and they were trying to guilt them into keeping or aborting based on their personal views
[20:21:51] angelcerv21: pros by not breeding
[20:22:11] guaaaache: i meant what pros and cons could the woman come up with herself in relation to her own life
[20:22:15] angelcerv21: we're human - very hard to not let your opinion influence your work
[20:22:28] guaaaache: if you can't do it, it's not the profession for you
[20:22:52] angelcerv21: i wouldn't be able to do it. I would be encouraging women to get abortions and live their own life - FOR THEMSELVES - left and right
[20:23:05] guaaaache: yeah, I wouldn't do that
[20:23:16] angelcerv21: most wouldn't
[20:23:33] angelcerv21: in fact, I'm probably the only one on earth who can at least admit he's totally pro-abortion
[20:23:43] angelcerv21: it's the only chance the earth has
[20:23:48] angelcerv21: the only chance we humans might have
[20:23:51] angelcerv21: and even then...
[20:24:13] angelcerv21: it comes down to no more breeding
[20:24:18] angelcerv21: have sex, have fun, don't get preggo
[20:24:24] angelcerv21: if you do, kill it
[20:24:28] angelcerv21: that's how i see it, hahaha
[20:24:43] guaaaache: yeah... but unfortunately, everyone is different
[20:24:49] angelcerv21: that's what scares me
[20:24:56] guaaaache: no one is going to be able to take the same approach with the same situation
[20:25:00] angelcerv21: there are people who think abortion is somehow "wrong"... I don't get that
[20:25:16] angelcerv21: people who think they need to have lots of babies (mormons)
[20:25:21] guaaaache: even if they don't think it's wrong, it's impossible to say what you would do in certain situations until you find yourself in it
[20:25:28] angelcerv21: people who dare to try and outlaw abortion
[20:25:39] angelcerv21: the abortions will still happen, simply called "back alley abortions"
[20:25:41] angelcerv21: very dangerous
[20:26:00] angelcerv21: i would have no problem getting an abortion, assuming i could get pregnanrt
[20:26:08] angelcerv21: or get someone else pregnant
[20:26:11] Flami: this whole conversation reminds me of the abortion sniper
[20:26:12] angelcerv21: funny....
[20:26:15] guaaaache: you say that, but it's only hypothetical
[20:26:16] angelcerv21: oh, ew
[20:26:17] angelcerv21: that guy
[20:26:24] angelcerv21: no, i'm absolutely certain
[20:26:40] guaaaache: you can be absolutely certain of a hypothetical?
[20:26:47] angelcerv21: i like to try and live up to what i believe
[20:26:59] angelcerv21: if i got pregnant, i would get an abortion. period
[20:27:08] angelcerv21: there is no thinking about it
[20:27:12] guaaaache: there is such a thing as situational influence which doesn't exist for hypotheticals
[20:27:13] angelcerv21: it's like i already did all the thinking about it
[20:27:23] guaaaache: I'm not saying you're wrong
[20:27:37] angelcerv21: it's hard to imagine it to begin with, i'm intersexed
[20:27:48] guaaaache: but I've known people who changed their mind when they found themselves having to make the decision
[20:27:49] angelcerv21: but i feel very strongly about this - no breeding, pro-abortion
[20:27:52] angelcerv21: extremely strongly
[20:28:04] angelcerv21: kinda like weed - it needs to be legalized. Time to stop putting people in jail for a joint
[20:28:29] angelcerv21: women I know who are pregnant... i've encouraged them to get abortions when they were scared
[20:28:33] angelcerv21: some did, some didn't
[20:28:38] guaaaache: it's fine to have a strong opinion on something as long as you accept others might not feel as strongly
[20:28:39] angelcerv21: the ones that didn't had to give up school
[20:28:42] angelcerv21: give up work
[20:28:48] angelcerv21: or get more, depending on situation
[20:29:28] angelcerv21: i don't know if i can accept others - especially when it's from that conservative / religious standpoint - no, i don't accept that at all
[20:29:32] angelcerv21: that's dangerous and harmful
[20:29:38] angelcerv21: continued breeding is harmful
[20:29:39] guaaaache: I don't mean that
[20:30:03] angelcerv21: i am about reproductive freedom
[20:30:08] angelcerv21: but it comes with a price
[20:30:12] angelcerv21: more damage to the earth
[20:30:17] angelcerv21: further resources squeezed out
[20:30:27] angelcerv21: not enough jobs, healthcare, water, food to go around much longer
[20:30:31] angelcerv21: this is reality
[20:30:35] angelcerv21: opinions don't mean much after that
[20:30:41] guaaaache: I don't accept any view that seems to have some opinion about what others should be doing. it's never going to work
[20:31:05] angelcerv21: but we all have opinions about what people should and shouldn't do
[20:31:16] angelcerv21: i think for the sake of the earth and the human race, all this senseless breeding needs to stop
[20:31:41] guaaaache: sure, but when someone tries to make that a reality, I hate that
[20:31:48] guaaaache: I'm not 100% against breeding
[20:31:52] guaaaache: I think it can be done within reason
[20:31:54] angelcerv21: it should be a reality, because it is reality
[20:32:04] angelcerv21: that is just the way it is
[20:32:00] angelcerv21: the earth is dying
[20:32:12] angelcerv21: i can't fight it as much as i hate it
[20:32:18] guaaaache: it's not just dying because people are breeding too much
[20:32:29] angelcerv21: no, but that's a huge part of it
[20:32:34] angelcerv21: sure, there is more going on
[20:32:38] guaaaache: sure, but it's due to people's behaviour as well
[20:32:53] angelcerv21: breeding and overpopulation however, is the number one environmental disaster facing this earth
[20:32:55] guaaaache: when people act carelessly, they're contributing whether they have children or not
[20:33:03] angelcerv21: of course
[20:33:11] angelcerv21: but children, more of them, are a huge huge factor
[20:33:15] angelcerv21: bigger than the rest
[20:33:16] guaaaache: having said that, my housemate has like 14 brothers and sisters. fucking ridiculous
[20:33:20] angelcerv21: though the rest stack up to a lot as well
[20:33:24] angelcerv21: whoa!!
[20:33:29] angelcerv21: how does a woman do that?
[20:33:39] guaaaache: yeah, he says its normal for his country
[20:33:50] guaaaache: well, she basically had a baby every year, so she was constantly pregnant
[20:34:05] guaaaache: from 18 - age 40 or whatever
[20:34:30] angelcerv21: according to the book i read about overpopulation - in order to restore or attempt to restore the earth to its former functionality, we need to decrease the human population by 5 billion
[20:34:33] angelcerv21: i was like whoa.....
[20:34:45] angelcerv21: but
[20:34:44] angelcerv21: that's a bit much for me
[20:34:56] angelcerv21: i think if no babies were born, at all, in the next year
[20:35:00] angelcerv21: that would be a huge help
[20:35:06] guaaaache: it would be pretty hard to do. considering many countries just don't have contraception available to them
[20:35:11] guaaaache: i agree. i think that's reasonable
[20:35:16] guaaaache: if you could make it happen
[20:35:24] angelcerv21: they do, but the US is meddling with that because of christian right-wing nutters
[20:35:33] angelcerv21: in africa, they use garbage bags
[20:35:41] angelcerv21: because funding was pulled for condom promotion
[20:35:45] guaaaache: that's if they use anything at all
[20:35:48] angelcerv21: its all in the book Sex in Crisis
[20:36:04] angelcerv21: horrible stuff the US is doing, the conservative movement
[20:36:11] angelcerv21: they don't feel the labored breathing of the earth
[20:36:14] angelcerv21: i feel it all the time
[20:36:19] angelcerv21: i can't believe i'm the only one
[20:36:24] angelcerv21: but she is dying
[20:36:27] angelcerv21: too many people
[20:36:40] guaaaache: what I thought was pretty horrible in africa was when they, for some reason, stopped getting a supply of tampons and pads
[20:36:52] Flami: why?!
[20:36:57] guaaaache: they had to use whatever they could find, and got infections from dirty newspapers and stuff
[20:36:59] angelcerv21: it's all from the US
[20:37:13] angelcerv21: the christian movement is so powerful
[20:37:14] guaaaache: the government didn't think it was necessary or some shit
[20:37:25] guaaaache: there was a woman who set up a charity for it called Dignity Period
[20:37:28] angelcerv21: they thought promotion of condoms was promotion of promiscuity
[20:37:43] guaaaache: she was frequently beaten and raped with guns etc because she was talking out against the government
[20:37:56] angelcerv21: it's a mess
[20:38:21] angelcerv21: what scares man more than anything on earth?
[20:38:22] guaaaache: that was a couple of years ago
[20:38:22] angelcerv21: woman
[20:38:34] guaaaache: not woman, but woman being equally powerful
[20:38:39] angelcerv21: no just woman
[20:38:43] guaaaache: and not needing their protection or control
[20:38:50] angelcerv21: this is throughout history
[20:39:01] angelcerv21: the woman itself is a scary thing
[20:39:07] angelcerv21: it is not a man
[20:39:10] angelcerv21: yet
[20:39:17] angelcerv21: man needs her and is influenced by her
[20:39:31] angelcerv21: that terrifies particularly middle eastern men
[20:39:56] angelcerv21: the sharia law thing - an invention of man - separation of the sexes
[20:40:20] angelcerv21: such an irony when he needs her, yet does not want her influence
[20:40:52] guaaaache: I'm having problems with one of the guys I live with because of that
[20:41:03] angelcerv21: he's scared of women?
[20:41:08] guaaaache: not so much
[20:41:28] guaaaache: but in his country, someone like me (female and younger than him) would have to respect him no matter what
[20:41:33] guaaaache: and I don't work like that
[20:41:41] guaaaache: he's an arsehole, so he doesn't deserve my respect
[20:41:49] guaaaache: he gets very frustrated with that
[20:42:03] *** madraykin11 has joined the conversation.
[20:42:07] guaaaache: like, thinks I should put his needs before my own or something
[20:42:08] angelcerv21: like how?
[20:42:12] guaaaache: like needing to use the bathroom
[20:42:15] angelcerv21: where is he from?
[20:42:20] guaaaache: jordan
[20:42:23] angelcerv21: ooooh
[20:42:27] angelcerv21: that explains it
[20:42:30] madraykin11: hi, guys :)
[20:42:34] angelcerv21: hahahaha, i hate to say it like that but its true
[20:42:36] angelcerv21: hello
[20:42:43] angelcerv21: sorry, i just got the comment on LJ
[20:42:56] madraykin11: no worries! how is everyone doing?
[20:42:58] guaaaache: no, it would be normal in his culture, but in my opinion, he has come to my country to live here where it's not the same
[20:43:14] guaaaache: so expecting me to act in a way that would be normal in his culture is fucking ridiculouslture is fucking ridiculous
[20:43:32] angelcerv21: yes, it will be his job to assimilate to a new culture
[20:43:35] angelcerv21: a more liberated one
[20:44:11] angelcerv21: madraykin, the convo is all intense
[20:44:17] Flami: people like him deserve to be shot in the head
[20:44:18] angelcerv21: religion, abortion, culture
[20:44:29] angelcerv21: no, they need education
[20:44:33] guaaaache: I can tell that he thinks I'm beneath him whenever we'd have a conversation, so I stopped acknowledging him
[20:44:38] madraykin11: haha, I can see! I feel like I missed oodles
[20:44:39] angelcerv21: good
[20:44:48] guaaaache: he is seriously stupid. I don't want to sound conceited, but I'm so much smarter than he is
[20:44:54] angelcerv21: sometimes that's the best you can do
[20:44:59] *** grritsRawRa has joined the conversation.
[20:45:08] angelcerv21: ignore him, and know you are above that kind of behavior
[20:45:16] angelcerv21: what about the bathroom, by the way?
[20:45:22] grritsRawRa: sorry about that! I is back.
[20:45:26] angelcerv21: cool
[20:45:27] guaaaache: I do ignore him, but he thinks that I'm being disrespectful
[20:45:33] guaaaache: so he tries to intimidate me, etc
[20:45:48] guaaaache: like tries to corner me into talking to him and shit
[20:45:50] angelcerv21: did you tell him straight up that he is too disrespectful for you to associate with?
[20:46:04] guaaaache: he would not take that well or ever get it, I'd suspect
[20:46:10] angelcerv21: you should do it
[20:46:13] Flami: like I said... *BANG* to the head...
[20:46:17] guaaaache: distance is best
[20:46:15] angelcerv21: people need to hear what they need to hear
[20:46:23] angelcerv21: well, get your say in if you must
[20:46:26] angelcerv21: then distance
[20:46:26] guaaaache: doesn't mean they'll hear it for what it is
[20:46:32] angelcerv21: i like communication and assertiveness
[20:46:35] angelcerv21: so use it
[20:46:41] guaaaache: I've already tried to talk to him respecfully about a number of things, and he just brushes it off
[20:46:46] angelcerv21: if he refuses to acknowledge that, so be it
[20:46:57] grritsRawRa: I'm lost.
[20:47:02] angelcerv21: hahahaha
[20:47:14] angelcerv21: her roommate is jordanian and obviously sexist
[20:47:20] Flami: Mikaela has a total asshole in her life
[20:47:20] angelcerv21: that's how he was raised
[20:47:22] madraykin11: me too, but this guy sounds like a douchebag
[20:47:24] guaaaache: he crossed the line when he started banging on the bathroom door the other day, demanding I get out right now he because he needed to take a shower
[20:47:25] madraykin11: oh
[20:47:25] angelcerv21: hahahaha
[20:47:42] angelcerv21: whoa....
[20:47:45] guaaaache: yeah
[20:47:52] guaaaache: he does things like that increasingly more often
[20:47:58] angelcerv21: and did you fire back, "you wait your turn until I'm done with the bathroom, you rude asshole!"
[20:48:01] madraykin11: wow =/
[20:48:04] guaaaache: like I said, i'm supposed to be respecting him and getting out of the way when he needs something
[20:48:05] Flami: can you move?
[20:48:10] guaaaache: not yet
[20:48:33] angelcerv21: call him out on his rudeness when he does that
[20:48:38] angelcerv21: banging and shit
[20:48:40] angelcerv21: no tolerance
[20:49:19] angelcerv21: god, if anyone did that to me while i was in the bathroom, i would freak out
[20:49:22] guaaaache: I did say "when you expect me to respect you for no reason, you're not going to get the desired results. you have to earn it at this point in time"
[20:49:35] angelcerv21: you said that right then and there?
[20:49:49] guaaaache: I said it at one point in time, but he obviously didn't agree
[20:49:57] guaaaache: he doesn't respect anyone in the house, frankly
[20:50:01] guaaaache: but especially not the women
[20:50:29] angelcerv21: i've never met a middle easterner who was respectful. Sorry if that sounds racist, but i've met many, and it's just the way it is
[20:50:40] guaaaache: I've met a couple
[20:51:00] grritsRawRa: i keep getting behind on the conversation.
[20:51:07] Flami: I've almost never met a black man who wasn't arrogant as shit
[20:51:19] angelcerv21: I've known great black men
[20:51:20] guaaaache: one guy from iran who is pretty nice, and some indians
[20:51:26] guaaaache: I lived with them before
[20:51:35] angelcerv21: i worked with a black guy - hot as shit, nice - he's a reference now when i job hunt
[20:51:56] grritsRawRa: one of my friends is a jamaican dude. funniest guy i know. haha
[20:52:02] Flami: I'm not racist... but sometimes? ugh.
[20:52:13] angelcerv21: i knew a jamaican girl who turned out to be an asshole
[20:52:31] angelcerv21: well, i hate it when someone of a certain race lives up to the stereotype
[20:52:36] angelcerv21: come on, seriously??
[20:52:51] guaaaache: a lot of the aborigines do that here, unfortunately
[20:53:06] angelcerv21: i hear from a guy i met on LJ also in australia
[20:53:12] guaaaache: but then I'm only basing that on what I see. I dont know their circumstances.
[20:53:18] guaaaache: but the way some of them act is pretty terrible
[20:53:19] angelcerv21: he says they live up to the stereotype
[20:53:29] guaaaache: they don't all do that, but quite a few do.
[20:53:36] angelcerv21: like the blacks in south africa...
[20:53:46] angelcerv21: a white guy I know online lives there
[20:53:48] guaaaache: I think they think the only way they can get by in society is to be intimidating and scary
[20:53:55] angelcerv21: says "if you're not racist when you get here, you will be"
[20:54:10] angelcerv21: well, culture speaks volumes
[20:54:16] angelcerv21: what opportunities do they have?
[20:54:21] Flami: I know a few Chinese people who came here from South Africa
[20:54:29] angelcerv21: chinese in south africa?
[20:54:53] Flami: yeah... it's a very small community
[20:54:54] angelcerv21: too bad steve isn't here.... sorry, had to throw that out here
[20:55:03] guaaaache: they have very limited opportunities, and it's very frustrating for them
[20:55:06] Flami: what do you think he'd say?
[20:55:12] angelcerv21: hahaha, i don't know
[20:55:29] angelcerv21: there you go guaaache, that's the same story of blacks in the 60s
[20:55:33] angelcerv21: here in the states
[20:55:52] angelcerv21: it's hard to be "good" when getting by is impossible, or made impossible
[20:56:03] guaaaache: the only way we can really change things here is if we can successfully change the general attitude of whites here
[20:56:17] angelcerv21: do aborigines look that different?
[20:56:36] madraykin11: wow, I was about to go to sleep, but I saw what someone said (ugh mac, doesn't tell me the names.. just shows icons) that they've never met someone from the middle east who was respectful. how many have you met? because I tutor english to students from the UAE, and they are the kindest and most respectful people I know
[20:56:41] guaaaache: what do you mean? compared to other people?
[20:56:51] angelcerv21: i said that
[20:56:55] madraykin11: sorry if the topic changed, but I had to say it...
[20:57:04] guaaaache: madraykin, I've met kind respectful middle easterners
[20:57:11] guaaaache: there are many here
[20:57:17] angelcerv21: I've worked with and waited on many when I was working, and they all had a sense of sexism and entitlement
[20:57:39] grritsRawRa: i dont fit into these conversations
[20:57:41] madraykin11: I also know a lot of sexist white people =P
[20:57:47] guaaaache: me too
[20:57:49] guaaaache: many, many
[20:57:51] angelcerv21: at school, they refuse to speak english, though you have to know it to come to school, so we all know they know it
[20:58:18] angelcerv21: they seem angry at school, too
[20:58:18] guaaaache: what I think is ironic is that so many white people here hate muslims because they are disrespectful to women.. except those same white people are the fucking same
[20:58:35] angelcerv21: i hate muslims because of their religion, predominantly
[20:58:38] angelcerv21: look at them over there
[20:58:42] angelcerv21: stoning women
[20:58:50] angelcerv21: sentencing a guy to have his spinal cord severed
[20:58:57] angelcerv21: what was his crime? Who cares? That's just sick
[20:59:00] angelcerv21: they are oppressive
[20:59:02] angelcerv21: dark ages
[20:59:09] guaaaache: sure, but that stuff is cultural, too
[20:59:16] angelcerv21: it's religion
[20:59:22] guaaaache: not saying I approve, but it's difficult to change a culture
[20:59:23] angelcerv21: their whole culture is shaped by religion
[20:59:31] guaaaache: and so is america
[20:59:32] angelcerv21: that's what makes them dangerous
[20:59:41] angelcerv21: islam is not a religon or a cult
[20:59:44] angelcerv21: it's a way of life
[20:59:54] angelcerv21: america is sick, yes
[20:59:56] guaaaache: some might say the same about christianity
[21:00:00] angelcerv21: I'll be gone in the next two years!!
[21:00:04] madraykin11: so?? maybe they want to speak their native language with each other. have you studied abroad? I have, and most americans speak english with each other because it's.. comforting? familiar?
[21:00:06] angelcerv21: all religion is dangerous
[21:00:18] guaaaache: that is true, madraykin
[21:00:19] angelcerv21: but i put islam as most dangerous, followed closely by christianity
[21:00:26] madraykin11: ... wow...
[21:00:38] guaaaache: given the opportunity, an english-speaking person would speak their own language in a different country
[21:00:43] angelcerv21: here in america, we don't stone women even though the bible approves
[21:00:54] angelcerv21: sure, but the asians? they speak all the english they can
[21:01:00] guaaaache: sure, but people kill because they think god would approve
[21:00:59] angelcerv21: they want to be good at it
[21:01:17] angelcerv21: the middle eastern students struggle because they don't really care about getting good at english
[21:01:32] guaaaache: most asians I know will speak their own language when they can, because it's the most comfortable one for them
[21:01:38] angelcerv21: lots of students from abroad around here
[21:01:47] guaaaache: Angel, everyone in the middle east has to learn english from school.
[21:01:58] angelcerv21: that's what I thought
[21:01:59] madraykin11: sigh. such generalizations. like I said, I tutor students in english as a second language... they all equally try as hard. islamophobia is infuriating
[21:01:59] guaaaache: they sometimes learn everything in english
[21:02:06] angelcerv21: and you have to pass english tests to be admitted to school here
[21:02:21] angelcerv21: but they won't try and make friends, won't use english in class... it's kind of embarrassing
[21:02:30] angelcerv21: i've had class with them
[21:02:34] angelcerv21: and the teacher was so frustrated
[21:02:42] guaaaache: have you considered no one will try to be their friend, either?
[21:02:43] angelcerv21: he just stopped acknowledging them
[21:02:47] angelcerv21: well, I did
[21:02:56] angelcerv21: i asked them what language were they speaking
[21:02:56] guaaaache: maybe they were scared?
[21:03:05] madraykin11: "have you considered no one will try to be their friend, either?" exactly what I was going to say..
[21:03:06] angelcerv21: they went on speaking it and didn't answer my question
[21:03:18] angelcerv21: one of them was quite good-looking
[21:03:22] angelcerv21: that's why I approached
[21:03:26] angelcerv21: but they were very rude
[21:03:30] angelcerv21: so i didn't bother after that
[21:03:39] guaaaache: try to imagine how you would feel if you were in their situation
[21:03:53] angelcerv21: i would respond
[21:04:04] Flami: as would I
[21:04:07] angelcerv21: instead of continuing in whatever language it was while gawking at me
[21:04:21] angelcerv21: no excuse for rudeness
[21:04:25] guaaaache: they might have thought you were being rude. not saying you were, but anything is possible
[21:04:35] angelcerv21: i guess they did i don't know
[21:04:46] angelcerv21: it was disappointing
[21:04:51] angelcerv21: then there were my middle eastern customers
[21:05:04] angelcerv21: i was always getting yelled at for some reason or another by them
[21:05:08] guaaaache: I can only speak from my experience, but I had koreans in my classes in high school, and the teacher would yell at them if they didn't speak english all the time. even if one was just explaining an exercise to the other
[21:05:10] angelcerv21: nothing satisfied them
[21:05:23] guaaaache: so? I've had the same experience with white people
[21:05:25] angelcerv21: well, the teacher is in the right, i think
[21:05:28] angelcerv21: it's just respect
[21:05:38] angelcerv21: you speak the language of the country in which you are residing
[21:05:40] guaaaache: for what? it's none of your business if it's a personal conversation
[21:05:47] angelcerv21: it's the teacher's classroom
[21:05:48] guaaaache: they can speak whatever they want
[21:05:52] angelcerv21: there are no personal conversations
[21:06:06] guaaaache: you probably shouldn't come to australia if you're bothered by that sort of thing
[21:06:10] madraykin11: lol. what classrooms have you been in your whole life? no personal conversations, my ass
[21:06:14] angelcerv21: the illegal immigration debate - people would be a lot less pissed if they learned english
[21:06:16] guaaaache: you're going to constantly be surrounded by different languages here
[21:06:31] madraykin11: do you travel much at all?
[21:06:36] angelcerv21: I've almost finished two degrees
[21:06:57] Flami: FOOD TIME
[21:07:01] angelcerv21: i am here too, always hearing different languages. That's fine, as long as they know english
[21:07:09] angelcerv21: and can respect a teacher who asks they use english in the classroom
[21:07:09] grritsRawRa: hey, is julie still here?
[21:07:12] guaaaache: a lot of people here can't speak english
[21:07:18] angelcerv21: she got kicked out
[21:07:21] guaaaache: they are learning
[21:07:22] angelcerv21: same here in america
[21:07:23] grritsRawRa: awww, poo.
[21:07:28] angelcerv21: millions don't know it
[21:07:38] angelcerv21: but the ones that try - awesome for them
[21:07:46] madraykin11: you can't instantly learn english, first of all. secondly, why does it bother you so much? I don't understand.
[21:07:57] angelcerv21: why are you assuming it does?
[21:07:59] madraykin11: where are you from, if you don't mind me asking? america?
[21:08:05] angelcerv21: I merely think it's respectful to try
[21:08:13] guaaaache: some of them don't use english in their everyday lives, and therefore can't speak it
[21:08:25] guaaaache: some come here when they are very old, and can't really pick it up
[21:08:33] angelcerv21: living in a place that uses english really helps to learn it too
[21:08:39] angelcerv21: in cali, I picked up so much spanish
[21:08:47] angelcerv21: that's what people speak
[21:08:55] madraykin11: how do you know they're not trying? I mean, have you ever moved to a different country and tried to learn the language? it's difficult, and doesn't come right away
[21:09:03] guaaaache: I thought english would have been the official language of california
[21:09:11] guaaaache: i thought people weren't allowed to speak their own language
[21:09:15] angelcerv21: no, cali is mexico's bedroom
[21:09:23] angelcerv21: mostly, spanish is used
[21:09:35] angelcerv21: i had to leave because you can't even get a job without being bilingual
[21:09:53] madraykin11: same in florida, where I'm from. but I don't see anything wrong with it. we're all immigrants... except the native americans.
[21:10:03] angelcerv21: i thought we were to expect the ones not using english to try and learn it
[21:10:07] angelcerv21: instead of catering to them
[21:10:11] angelcerv21: giving them no incentive to try
[21:10:19] angelcerv21: that was then, this is now
[21:10:22] guaaaache: I don't have a problem with catering to people who can't speak english very well
[21:10:27] angelcerv21: the "we're all immigrants" thing doesn't work for me
[21:10:38] madraykin11: there is still incentive to try, of course there is. but meanwhile, they still need help while learning.
[21:10:41] grritsRawRa: hey madraykin, i havent been paying attention. which bp person are you?
[21:10:45] guaaaache: yeah, that would be too inconvenient for you
[21:10:53] madraykin11: why doesn't that work...?? XD
[21:10:59] madraykin11: moonbathe
[21:11:03] angelcerv21: because that was then, this is now
[21:11:10] grritsRawRa: alrighty.
[21:11:28] angelcerv21: looking to the past doesn't really solve anything, it's about moving forward
[21:11:54] angelcerv21: i hope my ancestors came with the desire to learn english
[21:12:00] angelcerv21: worked hard to assimilate
[21:12:05] angelcerv21: i don't see that happening anymore
[21:12:35] angelcerv21: at least try to learn the language, then! i don't think that's too much to ask
[21:12:40] angelcerv21: all your ancestors in the states did
[21:12:46] madraykin11: why should they assimilate? and lose their culture? their heritage?
[21:12:51] madraykin11: no, actually... no.
[21:12:52] angelcerv21: they came legally and learned and became americans... that's what they wanted to be - americans
[21:13:00] guaaaache: you seem to be expecting them to do much more than try to learn english
[21:13:03] guaaaache: if you want them to assimilate
[21:13:08] angelcerv21: maybe i do
[21:13:13] angelcerv21: mostly, it's language
[21:13:25] angelcerv21: hard to wait on a customer who won't speak english, and gets mad that I don't know spanish
[21:13:26] madraykin11: my family immigrated from italy in the 60s. it was hard for them, most of them still don't know english...
[21:13:33] angelcerv21: you all didn't have the experiences I did with that
[21:13:48] guaaaache: well then, you could learn to be more patient. english is a stupid language with really erratic and inconsistent grammar
[21:13:59] angelcerv21: so are all languages
[21:14:04] angelcerv21: they all suck, they're all hard
[21:14:05] guaaaache: how do you know we didn't have that experience?
[21:14:18] angelcerv21: because you didn't have my experience. Mine is totally unique
[21:14:23] madraykin11: hey, what about this...
[21:14:25] angelcerv21: i've been to lots of places all over america
[21:14:27] angelcerv21: and canada
[21:14:32] madraykin11: why don't you just learn everyone else's language? :P
[21:14:34] guaaaache: that means nothing
[21:14:56] angelcerv21: I did learn - in cali, since so few are learning english and using spanish
[21:15:10] angelcerv21: and who is "everyone else?"
[21:15:18] guaaaache: btw, some languages have very consistent grammar
[21:15:23] guaaaache: english has more than 300 irregular verbs
[21:15:27] angelcerv21: if i went to italy, i would know the language first
[21:15:32] angelcerv21: finland - i would know the language first
[21:15:35] guaaaache: that means people have to MEMORIZE the conjugations
[21:15:38] angelcerv21: anywhere
[21:15:40] angelcerv21: i would try hard to know the language
[21:15:45] angelcerv21: out of respect
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